Epstein's Little Black Book

A reader kindly provided me with a link to disgraced financier and alleged pedophile Jeffrey Epstein's "little black book" on the recent post I did concerning the parapolitics behind this latest scandal. The contents of this little black book were originally posted on Gawker by the great Nick Bryant (author of The Franklin Scandal). That post can be found here while a more legible list of the names can be accessed here.

Through these links I was able to determine that Edgar Bronfman Jr. did in fact appear in Epstein's black book, as was briefly discussed in "Maxwell's Silver Hammer." Bronfman Jr. is the brother of the two Bronfman heirs implicated in the NXIVM cult overseen by now-convicted pedophile Keith Raniere.

Naturally, Bronfman is but one of several interesting names to appear in Epstein's little black book. As such, I shall provide a brief assessment of several of the most noteworthy names and briefly address the significance behind them in this particular post. While many of these names are hardly surprising, several appear to provide a glimpse into the networks behind Epstein's pedophile ring. Several trace back to an early sex scandal from nearly six decades ago that appears to be one of the crucial deep events of the past century.

And with that in mind, on to the names.

Celebs and Neoliberal Elites

Alec Baldwin: Once regarded as an up-and-coming leading man, Baldwin has spent of the twenty-first century working as a character actor and political activist for Democratic agenda. Of late, he's experienced something of a career resurgence imitating President Donald J. Trump. I suspect he may soon be finding a new career niche.

Baldwin as Trump

Ralph Fiennes: A leading British actor best know for roles in Schindler's List, The English Patient (both of which netted him Oscar nominations), Red Dragon, and the Harry Potter movies in which he played Lord Voldemort. Fiennes' family has deep links to the British establishment. Fiennes himself is an eight cousin of Charles, Prince of Wales, the heir apparent to the British throne. 

Michael Jackson: The legendary pop singer who died in 2009 at the age of fifty. Jackson had of course been accused of sexually abusing children for nearly two decades prior to his death. The allegations have only continued a decade after the former King of Pop shed his mortal coil. 

Courtney Love: The much-despised actress and musician was the frontwoman for grunge band Hole and starred in films such as Sid and Nancy and The People Vs. Larry Flynt. She is of course most well known as the former wife of deceased Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain, who committed suicide  in 1994, allegedly. Naturally, there are longstanding allegations that Love herself played some type of role in her husband's death. Unsurprisingly, Love is a registered Democrat. 

Kevin Spacey: An Academy Award winning actor for roles in films such as The Usual Suspects and American Beauty. I recent years he has drawn praise for his work on the Netflix original series House of Cards. As i'm sure many of you are aware, Spacey was accused of sexually assaulting then 14-year-old Anthony Rapp in 1986. In 2018, he was sued for sexually harassing an 18-year-old boy. The lawsuit was later dropped "with prejudice" (i.e., Spacey probably paid off the defendant).

Spacey

Bob Weinstein: The legendary Hollywood producer who co-founded one of the most legendary "independent" film studios, Miramax Films (which released the landmark Pulp Fiction, among many others), in addition to The Weinstein Company and Dimension Films. As you may have guessed, Bob is the brother of Harvey Weinstein, whom he co-founded Miramax with. Harvey is yet another prominent Democrat accused of numerous instances of sexual abuse, though none involved minors, as far as this researcher is aware. Regardless, Harvey's outrages were such that he is generally credited as the catalyst for turning #MeToo into a major movement.

Bob (left) and Harvey (right) Weinstein

Curiously, both Weinstein brothers are listed as co-executive producers on a 1989 British film called Scandal. Early funding for this film was provided by Robert Maxwell, the father of Ghislaine, Epstein's alleged madam. As was noted before here, Robert Maxwell was himself a major intelligence player, maintaining relations with the CIA, MI6, KGB, and the Mossad all the way up until his mysterious death in 1991.

Even more bizarre is the fact that Scandal is a depiction of the events surrounding the Profumo Affair, an earlier British sex scandal that brought down the government of Harold Macmillan. The affair revolved around a sex ring overseen by an osteopath known as Stephen Ward who had ample ties to both the British establishment and the intelligence community. One of his girls, Christine Keeler, ended up having an affair with one of Macmillan's cabinet minister while also sleeping with a Soviet spy. This has led to much speculation that Profumo was the result of some type of honeytrap, though as to which intelligence service was playing the other is debatable.

The Americans Roy Cohn and Thomas Corbally also appear in this scandal. Cohn is of course Trump's infamous former attorney and political mentor. Corbally was a private detective who was active in the US intelligence community during the early days of the Cold War. Profumo was not the only sex scandal Corbally crops up in either, leading this researcher to speculate that he was routinely used by Cohn (a frequent employer) to dig up blackmail material on the attorney's legions of enemies. Corbally would later work for Trump as well. Much more information on the role Cohn and Corbally played in Profumo can be found here and here.

To recap: Epstein possessed the phone number of a Hollywood producer who once distributed a film initially sponsored by his madam's father, which was based on a sex scandal highly manipulated by shadowy figures that would later mentor Trump. You just can't make this stuff up dear reader. Also, do keep Profumo in mind as we shall be returning to it.

***

So much for the Hollywood figures. Now, let us shift gears to the neoliberal elites listed in Epstein's book. In some cases, Epstein appears to have been quite close to several families closely associated with this faction. Naturally, the Clintons are one of these families. Two others are quite noteworthy. They are:

Kennedys: Half a dozen Kennedys appear in Epstein's book, including Ted Kennedy, the long-serving US Senator from Massachusetts who was the younger brother of JFK and RFK. The Kennedys are of course no strangers to sex scandals, and JFK himself may have been ensnared in the same sex ring involved in Profumo (noted before here) all those years ago. 

Others Kennedys listed in Epstein's book include Ted's son, Ted Jr.; RFK's widow Ethel; and their son, Robert Jr. Another RFK child who appears in the book is Kerry Kennedy, who was married for fifteen years to current New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. Cuomo himself is also listed in the book, though it is unknown as to whether Epstein encountered him via the Kennedys or the Clintons --Cuomo had served as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development during Bill Clinton's second term. He later served as the Attorney General of New York during the governorship of Eliot Spitzer. As was noted before here, Cohn acolyte and Trump crony Roger Stone appears to have played a role in ousting Spitzer from New York's governorship. Naturally, this occurred at a time when Stone was working as an attorney for the NXIVM cult. Funny how incestuous this all is, huh?

Cuomo

Curiously, Cuomo signed a law allowing the US Congress to review Trump's New York state tax returns a mere two days after Epstein's arrest. But hey, if your name is in that book, you've got to do something, right?

***

Rothschild: Virtually every conspiracy theory of the past two centuries or so has been linked to the Rothschild family at some point, so it should hardly be a surprise to find two members listed in Epstein's black book. They are Edouard de Rothschild of the French branch of the family, and from the British Evelyn de Rothschild.

Of the two men, Sir Evelyn is clearly the more powerful. Indeed, he appears to be the current head of the Rothschild family. Sir Evelyn is a former chairman of N.M. Rothschild & Sons, the family's flagship investment house. In this capacity, he became a financial adviser to Queen Elizabeth, and was reportedly knighted by her for these efforts. In 1982 he became the chairman of Rothschilds Continuation Holdings AG, the coordinating company for the Rothschild group. In 2003, he oversaw the merger of  he British and French Rothschild operations.

Sir Evelyn de Rothschild

Evelyn's appearance in Epstein's black book is not the first time this particular Rothschild has been linked to pedophilia. A close friend of Rothschild is Lord Peter Mandelson, a former Labour politician who served in the administrations of Tony Blair (also listed in Epstein's book) and Gordon Brown. Lord Peter is also the founder and longtime chairman of  Policy Network, a progressive think tank geared towards facing the "challenges" of the twenty-first century and the future of social democracy.

According to the great Institute for the Study of Globalization and Covert Politics (of which I am greatly indebted too for much of the background material here), Mandelson was accused of being a pedophile as far back as the 1990s. The accusation was made by a former board member of N.M. Rothschild & Sons personally appointed by Sir Evelyn: Lord Norman Lamont. This is most interesting, as shortly after leaving the Rothschild banking house Lamont would become the chairman of Le Cercle.

Lamont

The Cercle complex began as an offshoot of the Bilderberg group during the early 1950s, but always had a much more rightward drift. Up until the 1980s, it was almost completely dominated by reactionary Catholic orders such as the Sovereign Military Order of Malta and Opus Dei. It has long maintained close ties to the European aristocracy as well, with blue blood British Tories having dominated the network from the 1980s onward.

By the 1970s, the Cercle had largely broken with the neoliberal elite and had gone beyond being a policy coordinating body. At this juncture it was essentially a vast private intelligence network with ties to the secret services across the Western sphere of influence. It has also been linked to elite pedophile networks the world over, including the infamous networks in Belgium and the UK (noted before here), the Franklin scandal in the US and the dreaded Colonia Dignidad in Chile (noted here). As was noted in my prior examination of Epstein, it appears that Robert Maxwell, the father of Epstein's alleged madam Ghislaine, appears to have been in the orbit of the Cercle complex as well.

As such, a man like Lamont accusing a close Rothschild associate like Mandelson of pedophilia is not something to be taken lightly. Naturally, Mandelson is also listed in Epstein's black book.

***

So, the Clintons, the Kennedys, and the Rothschilds all seem to have ample ties to Epstein. Before moving along, I would like to address three other names listed in Epstein's black book that roughly fit into this neoliberal category. They are: 

Henry Kissinger: the former Secretary of State and National Security Advisor is at the absolute pinnacle of the neoliberal elite . A longtime associate of the Rockefeller family, Kissinger still wields incredible power in the foreign policy arena. Curiously, Kissinger is one of the few US foreign policy elites in the neoliberal establishment who has taken a more moderate approach towards Putin's Russia. Indeed, Kissinger has reportedly pushed Trump to improve relations with Russia so as to box in the rising power of China.

Kissinger

For our purposes here, it is interesting to note that Kissinger was a some-time Cercle participant during the 1970s, as noted by David Rockefeller in his autobiography Memoirs. Kissinger appears to have broken with the group at some point during that decade, however. Many within Le Cercle were deeply opposed to his pursuit of detente during his time in the Nixon and Ford administrations.

Kissinger appears to have had some type of relationship with Robert Maxwell also. The not-always-reliable Gordon Thomas and Martin Dillon report in Robert Maxwell, Israel's Super Spy that Kissinger's wife described their relationship as just one consisting of minor business dealings, but others in this work depict Kissinger and Maxwell as having a much closer relationship.

Curiously, Kissinger is reportedly the one who introduced Maxwell to longtime Republican Senator John Tower. Tower was close to fellow Texan George H.W. Bush and was initially tapped by Bush I to be his Defense Secretary. Tower's confirmation was voted down by the Senate and the post ultimately went to Dick Cheney.

Tower

It is interesting to note that Tower was one of the men present at the 1989 party Maxwell threw that was attended by Trump and Maxwell's daughter, Ghislaine (More information of the increasingly infamous 1989 party can be found here). The party would have occurred just a few months after Tower was rejected for Defense Secretary, and about a year before he was appointed chairman of the powerful President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIBA). Kissinger himself was already a member of the PFIAB at the time.

David Koch: While it may seem odd to list a member of the Koch family among the neoliberal elite, the Kochs' ideologically falls firmly in the camp of Mont Pelerin Society (MPS)-style libertarianism. And it just so happens that the economists who founded the MPS are generally credited with pioneering the concept of neoliberalism during the 1930s. Because of the domination of Keynesianism amongst the Liberal elite during the middle of the twentieth century, neoliberalism was mostly supported by the Buckley wing of the Republican party.

However, the zeitgeist began to shift during the 1970s as neoliberalism entered the mainstream. By the late 1990s, major tenets of neoliberalism such as free trade, open borders, deregulation, and an opposition to central planning had been firmly embraced by both major political parties in the United States. The rest of the world hasn't fared much better either. An excellent account of the rise of neoliberalism can be found in Quinn Slobodian's Globalist: The End of Empire and the Birth of Neoliberalism.

David's brother Charles is a member of the MPS and together these two have played a crucial role in spreading the ideology of the MPS through a series of libertarian-centric think tanks. The depth of Koch brother influence on the modern political landscape has been explored by Jane Meyer in Dark Money. These efforts had a profound influence on the Overworld and played a crucial role in the shift to neoliberalism among the "liberal" faction of the US. As such, it should come as little surprise that the Koch brothers appear to have covertly supported Hillary during the 2016 election.

the Koch brothers

The influence of the Koch brothers over the Republican party is such that they were able to place their own people in key positions in the Trump administration (noted here) despite Trump's repeated antagonism towards the family. David Koch showing up in Epstein's black book may be an indication as to why the Orange One felt comfortable in appointing Koch-flunky Mike Pence as his vice-president.

Peter Soros: He is apparently a nephew of the infamous George Soros. Soros and his Open Society Foundation are among the most generous patrons of "progressive" causes the world over. He was a major donor for both Barack Obama and Hillary and in general one of the Democratic party's most generous patrons. As such, he is a longtime bugaboo of both the far right and Trump himself. No doubt both camps would be pleased to have dirt on a nephew of Soros'.

British Establishment Ties

This researcher personally finds the names of British elites listed in Epstein's book to be among the most interesting. They provide some truly remarkable connections to prior black operations chronicled in this blog, among others. So, let us begin. 

Lord William Astor, 4th: A member of the wealthy Anglo-American Astor family that has been at the center of power in both the US and UK for centuries. The American branch had helped establish what would become the Office of Strategic Services prior to the Second World War while the British branch were key players in the infamous Round Table movement that spawned the Council on Foreign Relations, the Royal Institute for International Affairs, and other longtime bugaboos of the conspiratorial right. The British Astors were part of an even more exclusive clique within the Round Table movement known as the Cliveden Set that promoted appeasement with Nazi Germany in the years leading up to the war. Much more information on the Astors can be found here. 

Cliveden would later gain infamy again during the Profumo scandal of the early 1960s. Stephen Ward, who headed one of the rings providing girls to British elites, rented a cottage there on the weekends. As such, it was a frequent location for sex parties among the British aristocracy. Lord Asor's father, Lord William Astor, 3rd, was deeply involved in these parties and may have been compromised by Soviet intelligence in the process. The scandal subsequently ruined Astor, who died prematurely in 1966 never having recovered from the fallout.

Cliveden

It was against this backdrop that the present Lord Astor grew up around. Despite the family disgrace, Lord Astor bounced back nicely and once again has the family near the centers of power. He is the father-in-law of former Tory prime minister David Cameron.

Cecil family: The Cecils have been one of the most powerful and well connected British families for centuries now. The patriarch was William Cecil, Baron Burghley, who served twice as Secretary of State and once as Lord High Treasurer for the first Queen Elizabeth. Hence, the family has been a staple of British political life since the sixteenth century.

William Cecil

Several of the Marquess of Salisbury were close to Julian Amery, a pivotal figure in British black ops throughout the Cold War and chairman of the Cercle complex during the 1980s (Amery was addressed during my prior post on Epstein). Both the fifth and sixth were active in the far right Monday Club with Amery, while the sixth Marquess of Salisbury would participate in several Cercle meetings during the 1980s. In general, this branch of the Cecil family was very close to the network of far right British aristocrats and intelligence officers linked to the Hambros Bank and Le Cercle that I briefly outlined in my prior post on Epstein.

There are two Cecils listed in Epstein's black book. One, Aurelia Cecil Stephenson, is definitely a descendant of the historic family, but from the Amherst-Hackney line. The other, a Dr. Mark Cecil, is a hedge fund manager with ample connections to the British aristocracy. I have not been able to determine if he is related to the historic Cecil family, however.

Mark Getty: The founder of Getty Images and a member of the wealthy Anglo-American Getty family. Mark is the son of Sir John Paul Getty Jr. As was noted before here, JPG was also involved in the sex ring linked to Stephen Ward that was exposed by Profumo. He would later bring infamous filmmaker and occultist Kenneth Anger to the UK. Anger quickly made inroads among high society types and befriended several members of the Rolling Stones, including Mick Jagger. And it just so happens, Sir Mick is also in Epstein's black book.

Getty

Isabel Goldsmith: This would appear to be the oldest daughter of Sir James Goldsmith. There is much dispute as to whether Goldsmith was a member of the Cercle complex or not. At a minimum, he was a close collaborator and financial patron of Brian Crozier, another British Cercle chairman during the 1980s. He was also close to Sir David Stirling, a co-founder of the SAS who collaborated frequently with Julian Amery over the years.

Clementine Hambro: A member of the powerful family of merchant bankers. As was noted in my prior post on Epstein, Robert Maxwell was set up with his first publishing house by the Hambros Bank, which appears to have continued to lend him money for years afterwards. The Hambro family and their bank were also closely linked to British intelligence, frequently providing funds and fronts for covert operations. Sir Charles Hambro, a member of the Bank of England's board of directors and a former head of the Special Operations Executive during WWII, appears to have been the patriarch of the right wing network of British intelligence officers that would rally to Cercle complex during the 1970s. Several Cercle members had close ties to Hambro and his bank.

Sir Charles Hambro

Its likely that Hambro's network was part of a broader intelligence web overseen by the World Commerce Corporation (WCC). Established shortly after WWII, the WCC was a commercial intelligence operations featuring numerous former members of the OSS, SOE, and MI6 among its ranks. Sir Charles oversaw British operations, while William Stephenson represented Canada and OSS founder and director William "Wild Bill" Donovan the United States. Donovan would briefly serve as the corporation's chairman as well. Much more information on the WCC can be found here and in my prior post on Epstein. 

Clementine is not from that wing of Hambro family as Sir Charles, but her father and uncles have remained powerful figures within the British banking industry. What's more, her mother was Charlotte Soames, the daughter of Christopher Soames, Winston Churchill's son-in-law and a powerful figure within the Tory party. One of Clementine's uncles is Sir Nicholas Soames, another powerful Tory MP. Sir Nicholas was the chairman and still a member of the International Advisory Board of Aegis Defense Services, one of the leading private military companies in the world. Aegis was founded by Tim Spicer, a Cercle participant.

Clementine Hambro

In addition to being Winston Churchill's granddaughter, Clementine was a bride's maid at the wedding of Prince Charles and Diana, indicating that she has pretty exclusive access in her own right. On the whole, I find Clementine to be one of the most curious names in Epstein's book.

 Daniel Macmillan: The great-grandson of Prime Minister Harold Macmillan, whose administration was brought down by the Profumo scandal. Harold himself was not involved in the sex ring, but it would appears many of the figures close to him were (such as his Secretary of State for War, who went by the name of John Profumo). Harold Macmillan was also the father-in-law of Julian Amery. For those of you keeping score, this is the fourth family linked to Profumo that also appears in Epstein's book. The others were the Kennedys, the Gettys, and the Astors. And we have on more to come...

George Mountbatten: The Mountbattens are no strangers to sex scandals. George's father, the Third Marquess of Milford Haven (George is the fourth), was a close friend of Stephen Ward. Indeed, in The Secret Worlds of Stephen Ward, Anthony Summers and Stephen Dorril credit Mountbatten with introducing Ward to British high society.

David Mountbatten

And then there's George's great uncle, Lord Mountbatten. Lord Mountbatten has been linked to the sexual abuse of children at the infamous Kincora Boys' Home. During the 1970s, Mountbatten was linked to a coup against Prime Minister Harold Wilson that never quite got off the ground. Other alleged coup plotters included the above-mentioned Sir James Goldsmith, George Kennedy Young (Robert Maxwell's onetime MI6 handler and a frequent collaborator with Julian Amery), Sir David Stirling (another Amery crony, as noted above), and future Cercle chairman Brian Crozier. As such, Lord Mountbatten appears to have been quite close to the right wing network linked to the Cercle complex that I have described throughout this series. Julian Amery himself had also worked along side Lord Mountbatten in China during the final days of World War II.

Concluding Thoughts: A Very British Scandal

Obviously, this isn't meant to be an all inclusive examination of Epstein's black book, just the names I was most drawn to the most. But even in a precursory overview such as this, it is clear that Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans should be sweating bullets right about now. And indeed, there are already indications that panic is beginning to spread among elite social circles in Epstein's old stomping grounds (i.e. Manhattan, D.C., and Palm Beach). 

There's good reason to be concerned: Epstein clearly had contacts at the highest levels of the "liberal" faction in these United States. Democratic royalty such as the Kennedys, Clintons, and Soros are all present in Epstein's black book, as are mid-tier party officials such as a pair of former New Mexico governors, Bruce King and Bill Richardson. Also present are anti-Trump Republicans such as Leslie Wexner. 

But for my money, it is the British connections that really put this scandal into perspective. It is beyond striking that five families that turn up in the Profumo affair --the Kennedys, the Astors, the Gettys, the Macmillans, and the Mountbattens --have descendants listed in Epstein's black book. And then there's Trump himself --while his family was in no way linked to Profumo, his mentor, Roy Cohn, surely was. Increasingly, the Profumo Affair appears to be one of the pivotal deep events of the twentieth century. Its reverberations can still be felt in the second decade of the twenty-first century. 

And then there is the enigmatic Maxwell family. Ghisliane Maxwell has frequently been described as Epstein's madam and implicated in sexual abuse along with the billionaire financier. And yet, she was not faced any charges as yet. Her father, Robert Maxwell, appears to have had a decades spanning association with multiple intelligence services, including MI6, the KGB, the CIA, and especially the Mossad. But as I noted in a prior post on Epstein, Captain Bob appears to have been largely the creation of this far right wing network of British aristocrats and intelligence officers that I've been describing throughout this series. 

Robert Maxwell

This network crystallized in the immediate postwar years under the banner of Sir Charles Hambro (almost inevitably with the support of the World Commerce Corporation). Throughout the Cold War, this network would be implicated in a host of black operations, both foreign and domestic. During the administration of Harold Macmillan, it appears to have gone into rebellion against the government over the anti-Colonial drift. This sentiment gave rise to the Monday Club, which featured many future Cercle members and fellow travelers. 

When Profumo broke, this network went largely unscathed including families such as the Mountbattens who were both close to the scandal itself, and deeply implicated in sexual abuse. However, Macmillan and other Tories who either lacked the necessary fortitude or were compromised by the Soviets, were drummed out. 

By the 1970s, this network established close ties with the Cercle complex, and eventually took it over by the 1980s. Around the same time this British network joined Le Cercle, the complex appears to have moved to the pinnacle of elite pedophile networks. Its tendrils stretched across at least three continents. 

And then there's Trump and Cohn. Both men are closely linked to the old American Security Council (ASC) network. Throughout the Cold War, the ASC was essentially Le Cercle's American counterpart. Virtually every major American defense contractor contributed to the ASC, while its membership rolls were loaded with former high ranking military and intelligence officers. Like Le Cercle, it was both a think tank and a private intelligence network. Much more information on the ASC can be found here. 

While Roy Cohn never joined the ASC, he was a member of the Western Goals Foundation, a private intelligence foundation that tracked the Left in the United States. Western Goals was closely aligned with the ASC and there was much overlap in the membership. As such, it should come as little surprise that Trump's political rise has been greatly aided by the old ASC network (noted here and here). 

Even less surprising is that there was much overlap between the ASC and Le Cercle as well. While Britons and Americans were not officially allowed into the group until the late 1960s (Le Cercle was initially a German and French venture), the Cercle complex already appears to have established overtures with the ASC network by the early part of that decade. It was around this same time that the ASC network also began to forge ties with many of the future Cercle Britons (noted before here). 

Curiously, these connections were all being made around the time Roy Cohn's dogsboy, Thomas Corbally, was investigating Stephen Ward's sex ring. I've speculated before that Corbally was dispatched by Cohn (and likely Cohn's patron, J. Edgar Hoover) to investigate the claims that Ward had been used as back channel to the Soviets by the UK during the Cuban Missile Crisis and whether or not JFK had been ensnared in Ward's ring, which the Soviets were also cozy with.

Cohn

Is it possible that Corbally had hooked up with the Hambro-Cercle network during the early 1960s and formed an alliance between this faction and its American counterpart on behalf of Cohn (and surely others)? And if so, was the 1989 party Maxwell threw in which himself, Ghislaine, Trump, and Tom Bolan (Cohn's former law partner) were present an indication of the continuation of this alliance? Certainly Ghislaine would continue to associate with Trump throughout the '90s after she had encountered Epstein and appears to have set up a blackmail ring with him along the lines of Cohn's prior efforts. Call me crazy, but this seems to stretch coincidence. 

The ASC and Hambro-Cercle networks are surely not the only ones involved either. This is a strong Israeli element to all of this as well, but this researcher does not understand it at present. But regardless, this whole affair certainly has the makings of a modern Profumo, right down to the descendants of many of the former players. But this time around, rather than the chief executive being nailed to the cross, it is more likely our current one will be banging the nails in.